We are on the same page with this.

I always though it would have been better to portray Anikian / Vader as a failed hero attempt - keeping with the underlying Campbell hero view - resulting in an anti-hero. That, instead of a prophetic messiah that wasn't, or failed, or the fulfillment of the prophesy is twisted.

But if Lucas had used that more common sense path we, and geeks the world ever, wouldn't be debating this now. So, I guess Lucas isn't the fool I believe him to be

I just noticed I never spoke to this ... boy I'm more brain fried from work than I thought!

Yes, there are other jedi/force philosophies. Some are from sources outside of the movies, but in a place or 2 they are implied ... I think ...

Now, what I'm saying comes from discussions from the SW D6 RPG forum, so it isn't cannon or takes little bits of cannon and expands on those bits.

There are 'Gray Jedi' which can fall into 2 camps.

V 1. is a jedi on the edge between light and dark (usually role played as an excuse for a Jedi to right on the edge of what a jedi can do and try to rule lawyer out of getting dark side points).

V. 2 is jedi that are solidly on the side of the light, but have a disagreement with the counsel . It is implied that Qui-Gon is close to being one. It may have been in a cut scene from SW 1, or I may be miss-remembering it so take that statement with a grain of salt. but it is stated a lot in the wookieepedia site and others so ...

There are also Jensaarai an offshoot from the Jedi & Sith teachings that spilt from the counsel over a 100 years before SW I. They could use more direct force attacks than the Jedi allowed, but were disciplined enough to keep from being drawn into the dark side. Sort of a 'strong offense is a good defense, but do not be aggressive when it is unneeded' - In a way it is a Greco/Roman philosophy twist on the 'eastern philosophy' of the force. But does make some non-philosophy / sophist leaps .

There were other 'alien mystic' force philosophies and various offshoots in different eras but that is deep into geek comic book areas that are way off the beaten path of cannon

Penny, from your stance, I'd say your view of the sith that aren't evil would be in the gray jedi (v 1) . They may be giving into their passions, be more hot headed etc - all your points - but aren't Dark or Sith.

That said, I, when I played a jedi before getting back into C&C, I will admit that I was drawn to being a gray v2 -following the code, but ignoring the politic/bureaucratic dictates of the counsel. Some of the Jedi tenants though not evil of themselves just rubbed me as being to restrictive without a reason or explanation for being so - outside of the 'it can lead to being a Sith' reason. But, any and all aspects of free will can lead to evil , so in SW terms any free will can lead to being a Sith. But the good jedi should never argue against free will, so shouldn't argue for so many of the dictates ... boy I'm way out in the briar patch on this ... stay on target ...

I also like about 80% of the Jensaarai view of the force (go figure me like a Greco/Roman philosophy) except for the faulty sophist leaps of logic that was made.




Hmmm, I would have bet on healing on that ... glad I'm not a betting man.

You know, as this is morphing more into a philosophy discussion than I ever thought it would, and the fact there is more than 1 way to skin a cat, ... could one Jedi teach a way that it is your increase physique - so the poison is never breathed in. But then another Jedi (that is skilled in healing) teach his way to heal the body of the poison before the poison does any harm .... Hmmmmm and a 3rd teach a way the clears the poison out of the air that is being breathed ....

Boy, your simplified way sure does open up opportunities to really think around corners and outside the box .... You sure you want us playing around Pandora's box like this

For the hiding of the force presence, I like that inverse use of intuition

I could see healing being used to neutralize the poison as it is affecting the body. That would work too.

And, a most definite, yes. I love when players think outside the box and come up with creative ways around things. It makes the game more interesting for me as a GM in how to challenge the players.

R-

Ok, next question ....

I assume Jedi sense would be part of the famous 'jedi danger sense', but what if they have the skill anticipate?

Will it stack - a powerful ally the force is - using the force to bolster the skill?

Or, will it be just the force skill - the force guides and controls you yes - and the jedi just trusts the force

Or, will it be the anticipate skill (if it is higher than the force skill) - you are young and must learn to let go and trust in the force - with the Jedi still trusting his skills instead of his weak but growing force powers.

I'd argue for stacking, but with a cap point where the stacking stops and only the force power is used. Showing the progression to the point that the force powers eventually over shadow the skill.

.... speaking of danger sense ... is it active (the Jedi must concentrate to use it) or passive (the Jedi has a bad feeling about that hallway) or both?

I would go with not stacking, just off of my gut. I still haven't gotten around to doing up the powers yet. I'd have to wait to see how I do the sense power.

R-

Ok despite some very crazy/angry calls and walk ins, the 1st of the month tends to be the easier part of the month, so I have a moment or 2 to breath and day dream about gaming at work, With that, I’ve thought through a scenario with a Jedi ….

The jedi and his friends are moving through a destroyed city to the hidden safe room/basement that has an exit in it to get them out of the city and to a hidden hanger so they can get off world.

A scout/sniper/recon team is looking for them and their hide site is the roof of the multi-story building the basement is in. The Jedi knows the scout snipers are out there somewhere …. He centers himself in the force and ….

Does he use sensory enhancement to glimpse the sniper team hidden on the roof,
danger sense to feel where the danger is coming from,
clairvoyance to sense their thoughts,
or is there another one that I’m not considering?

Now knowing where the recon/scout team is, he disables the team by ….

Using telekinesis to turn off their radios and mess up their sensors, drop the clip out of their weapons, etc
Using Telepathy to tell them the targets were seen running to the north of the hide sight and to reposition that way (leaving the team’s approach lane open or
Using ‘cloud the mind’ to tell them the things they see moving in the rubble is only whamp rats not the targets that they are watching for
(make the Jedi a sith and the telekinesis now is pulling grenades off the scouts’ kit or less sneaky, pulling the roof from under the scouts dropping them into ruined building)


Or is there some way he can pick a path that the scout snipers will not see them follow as they move? (I have no idea what that power would be … danger sense or clairvoyance are my best guesses)


Now I know with your 'think outside the box' all are possible, however, is there an option that is to far fetched to be viable, or am I making a faulty assumption on the use of any of the powers.

Honestly, Lurker, I don't know how I'd rule in that situation. As a GM, I'm inclined to let the players try almost anything, within reason. So, as long as the Jedi player could come up with a good explanation, I'd let the player's imagination and the dice figure it out. But those are all good uses of Force Powers for that situation.

I know, that's probably not a satisfactory answer, but it's the best I got.

R-

A 'not a satisfactory answer' is half of what I got from the VA over the last 2 days ..... your answer is good to go. It lets me know I'm getting better at looking at the scenario from different angles and coming up with different ways to use the powers. Instead of the d6 narrow specific focused powers that would limit the options the Jedi had.