I saw the original books for sale online. Are they worth getting? What's in the darn things anyway?
Would the original or updated stuff have anything useful to steal for C&C?
Arduin?
Depends a great deal on your personal tastes. Arduin tends to be a healthy mix of fantasy and science fiction with some way over-the-top tidbits of stuff, and lots of strangeness. I, personally, like some, not so much for much, but it's a piece of gaming history, so I have them anyway.
There are spells, items, and monsters worth stealing for C&C. Also, some other rules are pretty slick, depending on what you're looking for.
There are spells, items, and monsters worth stealing for C&C. Also, some other rules are pretty slick, depending on what you're looking for.
Hey Lantern,
The original Arduin Grimoire trilogy by David A. Hargrave (reprints for sale online HERE and occasionally through Noble Knight Games for less) was essentially the first "third-party" fantasy game/expansion based off of classic Dungeons & Dragrons.
At one point, TSR even served Hargrave with a "cease and desist" order, because his game mechanics were so clearly insprired by D&D. He changed the rules just enough to duck the lawyers, but since Arduin is based on the same classic mechanics as C&C, adapting the stuff over from the Grimoires shouldn't be too tough.
Whether you want Arduin as a source, will depend on what you're looking for ...
In general, original Arduin is more bloody/deadly when played as-is; it offers new character classes (Amazon, Witch Hunter, Courtesan, and so on ...) but most of these could already be inferred under the C&C rules (a female Fighter could be an Amazon; a Paladin could be a Witch Hunter, and so on).
Given the number of character option materials for D&D that have appeared since Arduin first appeared in the late 1970s, you don't _need_ Arduin as a source for classes -- there are more-easily ported variants out there.
The Arduin setting also allows for a Techno class -- essentially, a sceience-fiction class which uses technology that others regard as merely another form of "magic". More on this later.
Arduin also features a bunch of new spells, which are essentially D&D-like but they do use a "mana point" system.
Arduin offers some cool races which can be used by players and GMs alike: the lizard-man Saurids; the insectoid Phraints (D&D's Thri-Kreen were either an homage to, or a swipe of, the Phraints -- although I like Phraints better myself) and the undead-elven Deodanth.
The thing most people like most about Arduin, I think, is its setting.
Recently, the current publishers of Arduin released a huge campaign-world setting book for Khaas (the world Arduin inhabits) -- and released it rules-system free. It's expensive however, at 800-some pages, so you might do better buying it from Noble Knight Games.
The thing about Arduin is it's intentionally designed to be an "everything is here somewhere" fantasy world. Yes, it's inspired by Tolkien et al, like D&D, but it also embraces elements of Burroughs' Barsoom, Howard's Conan, and Leiber's Fafhrd and the Mouser.
Also crucial to the Arduin setting is that it's a world of dimensional gates -- and different multiversal citizens have been immigrating to Khaas for millenia.
One of the interesting twists to this, for example, is that not only do the Arduin gods, and the powers of Earth's mythologies, have temples here, but so do most current Earth faiths: Christianity, Judaism, Islam (the real, peaceable Islam, not the madmen who use religion as their excuse to kill), Buddhism, and so forth. All these faiths empower D&D-style clerics.
As I mentioned above, Hargrave also made science-fiction an element in the world (some use it some don't) with certain creatures and races on the world of Khaas having "crash-landed" there from space. Hargrave's argument was that it's all "adventure fantasy" in the end, and if it's fun, why not allow it?
On the downside, the original Arduin Trilogy was typewritten, and then shrunk down to print, so staring at that smaller type, could make your eyeballs cross after a couple of hours. Or maybe that's just my forty-something eyeballs!
Also, even though the first three Grimoires are, technically, all you need, they scatter rules across the three volumes. Not all available races are in book one, for example. Hargrave published the rules "accretionally", if you will, and there's no central index of the first three Grimoires. Be prepared to actually look through the books for certain things.
So, the first three Grimoires are cheaper to buy, but the World of Khaas setting book might be more to your liking if you're already committed to the glorious C&C rules. There are a couple of Khaas PDF preview pages on the Emperor's Choice website.
Sorry for the length, but I hope this helps,
TheNewGuy
_________________
_________________
_________________
________
"But if your hand touches metal, I swear by my pretty floral bonnet, I will end you"
The original Arduin Grimoire trilogy by David A. Hargrave (reprints for sale online HERE and occasionally through Noble Knight Games for less) was essentially the first "third-party" fantasy game/expansion based off of classic Dungeons & Dragrons.
At one point, TSR even served Hargrave with a "cease and desist" order, because his game mechanics were so clearly insprired by D&D. He changed the rules just enough to duck the lawyers, but since Arduin is based on the same classic mechanics as C&C, adapting the stuff over from the Grimoires shouldn't be too tough.
Whether you want Arduin as a source, will depend on what you're looking for ...
In general, original Arduin is more bloody/deadly when played as-is; it offers new character classes (Amazon, Witch Hunter, Courtesan, and so on ...) but most of these could already be inferred under the C&C rules (a female Fighter could be an Amazon; a Paladin could be a Witch Hunter, and so on).
Given the number of character option materials for D&D that have appeared since Arduin first appeared in the late 1970s, you don't _need_ Arduin as a source for classes -- there are more-easily ported variants out there.
The Arduin setting also allows for a Techno class -- essentially, a sceience-fiction class which uses technology that others regard as merely another form of "magic". More on this later.
Arduin also features a bunch of new spells, which are essentially D&D-like but they do use a "mana point" system.
Arduin offers some cool races which can be used by players and GMs alike: the lizard-man Saurids; the insectoid Phraints (D&D's Thri-Kreen were either an homage to, or a swipe of, the Phraints -- although I like Phraints better myself) and the undead-elven Deodanth.
The thing most people like most about Arduin, I think, is its setting.
Recently, the current publishers of Arduin released a huge campaign-world setting book for Khaas (the world Arduin inhabits) -- and released it rules-system free. It's expensive however, at 800-some pages, so you might do better buying it from Noble Knight Games.
The thing about Arduin is it's intentionally designed to be an "everything is here somewhere" fantasy world. Yes, it's inspired by Tolkien et al, like D&D, but it also embraces elements of Burroughs' Barsoom, Howard's Conan, and Leiber's Fafhrd and the Mouser.
Also crucial to the Arduin setting is that it's a world of dimensional gates -- and different multiversal citizens have been immigrating to Khaas for millenia.
One of the interesting twists to this, for example, is that not only do the Arduin gods, and the powers of Earth's mythologies, have temples here, but so do most current Earth faiths: Christianity, Judaism, Islam (the real, peaceable Islam, not the madmen who use religion as their excuse to kill), Buddhism, and so forth. All these faiths empower D&D-style clerics.
As I mentioned above, Hargrave also made science-fiction an element in the world (some use it some don't) with certain creatures and races on the world of Khaas having "crash-landed" there from space. Hargrave's argument was that it's all "adventure fantasy" in the end, and if it's fun, why not allow it?
On the downside, the original Arduin Trilogy was typewritten, and then shrunk down to print, so staring at that smaller type, could make your eyeballs cross after a couple of hours. Or maybe that's just my forty-something eyeballs!
Also, even though the first three Grimoires are, technically, all you need, they scatter rules across the three volumes. Not all available races are in book one, for example. Hargrave published the rules "accretionally", if you will, and there's no central index of the first three Grimoires. Be prepared to actually look through the books for certain things.
So, the first three Grimoires are cheaper to buy, but the World of Khaas setting book might be more to your liking if you're already committed to the glorious C&C rules. There are a couple of Khaas PDF preview pages on the Emperor's Choice website.
Sorry for the length, but I hope this helps,
TheNewGuy
_________________
_________________
_________________
________
"But if your hand touches metal, I swear by my pretty floral bonnet, I will end you"
I'm not currently at my own computer right at this moment (being on vacation out of the country), but I do happen to have a character creation index for the original Arduin which appeared in an issue of a little known magazine called Vortext.
That will make things a bit easier if you wanted to create an Arduin character, but the other stuff is still scattered across the three books. I do believe Emperor's Choice has a reprint of Classic Arduin (aka Arduin II) available for sale that makes things a whole lot easier.
_________________
NOTE TO ALL: If you don't like something I've said, PM me and tell me to my face, then give me a chance to set things right before you call a moderator.
My small homage to E.G.G.
That will make things a bit easier if you wanted to create an Arduin character, but the other stuff is still scattered across the three books. I do believe Emperor's Choice has a reprint of Classic Arduin (aka Arduin II) available for sale that makes things a whole lot easier.
_________________
NOTE TO ALL: If you don't like something I've said, PM me and tell me to my face, then give me a chance to set things right before you call a moderator.
My small homage to E.G.G.
What is included, as far as all the booklets, in Arduin II?
_________________
The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society
Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/
My House Rules: http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... llordgames
_________________
The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society
Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/
My House Rules: http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... llordgames
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael
Grand Knight Commander of the Society.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael
Grand Knight Commander of the Society.
I don't know. I have original printings of the first three books and never saw a need to pick up Arduin II. However, it is my belief that not everything in the original three books made it into Arduin II. Unless of course Emperor's Choice didn't specify a page count for the book.
_________________
NOTE TO ALL: If you don't like something I've said, PM me and tell me to my face, then give me a chance to set things right before you call a moderator.
My small homage to E.G.G.
_________________
NOTE TO ALL: If you don't like something I've said, PM me and tell me to my face, then give me a chance to set things right before you call a moderator.
My small homage to E.G.G.
Arduin II is also cleaned up and corrected, where possible, from the Complete Arduin version of the rules. Arduin II/CA is a d100 based game. You can find description and copies for sale HERE and copies to buy at Noble Knight Games, for a little less, right HERE.
As for what's in and what's out between the two versions of the game, I can't tell you (I only own reprints of the original three books), BUT you can download a PDF from THIS LINK which serves as a FAQ and errata for Arduin II/Complete Arduin.
Hope this helps,
TheNewGuy
_________________
_________________
_________________
________
"But if your hand touches metal, I swear by my pretty floral bonnet, I will end you"
As for what's in and what's out between the two versions of the game, I can't tell you (I only own reprints of the original three books), BUT you can download a PDF from THIS LINK which serves as a FAQ and errata for Arduin II/Complete Arduin.
Hope this helps,
TheNewGuy
_________________
_________________
_________________
________
"But if your hand touches metal, I swear by my pretty floral bonnet, I will end you"
Thanks guys.
_________________
The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society
Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/
My House Rules: http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... llordgames
_________________
The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society
Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/
My House Rules: http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... llordgames
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael
Grand Knight Commander of the Society.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael
Grand Knight Commander of the Society.