15 minutes on wotc forums = I want to watch the world burn

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Lurker
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Re: 15 minutes on wotc forums = I want to watch the world bu

Post by Lurker »

Tree sorry to hear about the twisted intestine. My mom had something similar a few months agos, so I understand about how it can knock the wind out of you.

Also, rgr on it being hard with health issues after getting out. It kills me to know what shape I was in back on the teams, and then now how out of shape I'm in with my neck, shoulder back and knee ... Oh well the price of misspent youth ...

For the discussion at hand, personally, I have some very deep rooted religious views which feed into political views. Plus, I'm self taught into philosophy which feeds more into my beliefs.

However, I don't force these views (just try to live them). I've sat at tables (well played over the net) with guys that are probably 180 degrees out of my views and beliefs. We are 'friends' and can enjoy a game together and not argue the differences.

To me that is the key, be friends and enjoy a hobby despite the other views.

Unfortunately, not all are like that (which is the original point of the post). For them, ... shake the dust off your feet and go to a better place ...

That is what I like about here. 99 out of 100 times it is the 'better' place.
"And so I am become a knight of the Kingdom of Dreams and Shadows!" - Mark Twain

Forgive all spelling errors.

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Zudrak
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Re: 15 minutes on wotc forums = I want to watch the world bu

Post by Zudrak »

Lurker wrote:Tree sorry to hear about the twisted intestine. My mom had something similar a few months agos, so I understand about how it can knock the wind out of you.

Also, rgr on it being hard with health issues after getting out. It kills me to know what shape I was in back on the teams, and then now how out of shape I'm in with my neck, shoulder back and knee ... Oh well the price of misspent youth ...

For the discussion at hand, personally, I have some very deep rooted religious views which feed into political views. Plus, I'm self taught into philosophy which feeds more into my beliefs.

However, I don't force these views (just try to live them). I've sat at tables (well played over the net) with guys that are probably 180 degrees out of my views and beliefs. We are 'friends' and can enjoy a game together and not argue the differences.

To me that is the key, be friends and enjoy a hobby despite the other views.

Unfortunately, not all are like that (which is the original point of the post). For them, ... shake the dust off your feet and go to a better place ...

That is what I like about here. 99 out of 100 times it is the 'better' place.
Well said!

As for Tree, I pray things continue to improve as you seek "the new normal," whatever that turns out to be for you and yours. Sorry to hear it's been a rough go of late. One would not be able to tell from your posts as you have been as cordial and contributive to the conversations here as you ever have (in my experience).
Psalm 73:26

"Knowledge, logic, reason, and common sense serve better than a dozen rule books."

"Rules not understood should have appropriate questions directed to the publisher; disputes with the Dungeon Master are another matter entirely. THE REFEREE IS THE FINAL ARBITER OF ALL AFFAIRS OF HIS OR HER CAMPAIGN."
-- E. Gary Gygax

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ArgoForg
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Re: 15 minutes on wotc forums = I want to watch the world bu

Post by ArgoForg »

I feel like I ran into that very same feel on the Paizo boards. Don't get me wrong... on both boards I am sure there are a great number of fun, enjoyable and honestly helpful posters. But there are so many types that tie themselves so tightly to the 'rightness' of their own opinions and their interpretations of the rules that their posts just naturally feel antagonistic... especially when they're showing a dissenting point of view.

I left the Paizo boards because of constant bickering about Save vs. Die/Suck vis a vis straight HP damage, and things like rolls for every task, including figuring out puzzles. I don't like to get onto a board where it feels like I'm constantly on the defensive. That's one of the reasons I consistently (more or less) stay around here. Even when I have a differing opinion from others on how the game works, I feel like I learn, rather than just hearing a chorus of 'Nuh-uh's'.
- "I just happen to prefer games where the GM actually has final say on rules and is not just the wall to roll dice off to decide what happens."

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Re: 15 minutes on wotc forums = I want to watch the world bu

Post by Fiffergrund »

Just one final thought -

What I said wasn't "rubbish" and it wasn't "passive-aggressive."

I got into more than my share of political arguments with none other than Mr. Peter Bradley on various incarnations of TLG forums.

Then I realized that this isn't the place for that, and that it drives people away.

Here's the concept that I'm trying to bring back - Being Polite in Mixed Company

In short, if what you're about to say is either 1) based on an assumption that no one could possibly disagree in good faith or 2) could get you punched in the face as recently as 1975 (to pick an arbitrary year), then don't say it.

Insisting on politeness, decorum, and moderation of emotions is far from passive-aggressive. In the end, it actually helps people take you far more seriously than they otherwise would, and isn't that the goal?

Listen, I understand the impulse not to associate with people whose views you see as vile. I get that. But politically, people have a lot more in common than they realize, if they just stop watching television and talk to each other honestly.

It's not Yankees vs. Red Sox for crying out loud, and it's not a game on the line. It's Western Civ. We have an obligation to be intellectually honest with each other instead of just repeating the crap we've had repeated to us, over and over.

There are some people I've gamed with that I wouldn't do anything with outside of that. At the table, we have that in common, and as long as it sticks to gaming, there isn't a problem.

When it doesn't is when I leave, because I have no desire to have my views marginalized by intellectually dishonest shitheads that don't understand decorum or civility.

I really, really don't want that to happen here.
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serleran
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Re: 15 minutes on wotc forums = I want to watch the world bu

Post by serleran »

Just give us back The Stump and we can be done with this mamby-pamby social kissing.

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Fiffergrund
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Re: 15 minutes on wotc forums = I want to watch the world bu

Post by Fiffergrund »

serleran wrote:Just give us back The Stump and we can be done with this mamby-pamby social kissing.
I remember the Stump. :) A finer venue for shit-slinging never existed. Except for Washington DC.
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Acacius
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Re: 15 minutes on wotc forums = I want to watch the world bu

Post by Acacius »

Fiffergrund wrote:Just one final thought -

What I said wasn't "rubbish" and it wasn't "passive-aggressive."

I got into more than my share of political arguments with none other than Mr. Peter Bradley on various incarnations of TLG forums.

Then I realized that this isn't the place for that, and that it drives people away.

Here's the concept that I'm trying to bring back - Being Polite in Mixed Company

In short, if what you're about to say is either 1) based on an assumption that no one could possibly disagree in good faith or 2) could get you punched in the face as recently as 1975 (to pick an arbitrary year), then don't say it.

Insisting on politeness, decorum, and moderation of emotions is far from passive-aggressive. In the end, it actually helps people take you far more seriously than they otherwise would, and isn't that the goal?

Listen, I understand the impulse not to associate with people whose views you see as vile. I get that. But politically, people have a lot more in common than they realize, if they just stop watching television and talk to each other honestly.

It's not Yankees vs. Red Sox for crying out loud, and it's not a game on the line. It's Western Civ. We have an obligation to be intellectually honest with each other instead of just repeating the crap we've had repeated to us, over and over.

There are some people I've gamed with that I wouldn't do anything with outside of that. At the table, we have that in common, and as long as it sticks to gaming, there isn't a problem.

When it doesn't is when I leave, because I have no desire to have my views marginalized by intellectually dishonest shitheads that don't understand decorum or civility.

I really, really don't want that to happen here.
I disagree.
Why would you argue with the artist?
The kind of people I am talking about need to be driven away.
Being polite is fine i suppose. holding your tongue because you might offend a cultural marxist is pure lose.
Western civilization is dead. People politely and non-offensively stood by while it was killed.
What I post is what I think. If i just went alone to get along I would be on the wotc forums agreeing that Gygax was a racist and what not.
I do not hang out with people I find detestable. Commies and social progressives need not apply to game with me.
It wont. I am only responding because you felt the need to call me out.

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Re: 15 minutes on wotc forums = I want to watch the world bu

Post by Treebore »

Rude people will be driven away. Its what we have been saying all along. What is also being said, is its far more constructive to say things with respect and good manners. Get rude and disrespectful, and people stop listening. So if you want people to actually listen to what you have to say, put in the effort to maintain civility. I don't mean you as in "you", Acacius, I mean "you" as in everyone who wants to be listened to.
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

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Acacius
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Re: 15 minutes on wotc forums = I want to watch the world bu

Post by Acacius »

I am not going to lie.. I am really nosy about what Fiff and Bradly could have been arguing about. I do not remember any of it. I do recall lord Dynal(sp) and I disagreeing on the best way to use seige or the introduction of skills into C&C. I play with thief skills from AD&D2e in my game. I remember that being a debate...

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Fiffergrund
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Re: 15 minutes on wotc forums = I want to watch the world bu

Post by Fiffergrund »

Acacius wrote:I disagree.
Why would you argue with the artist?
The kind of people I am talking about need to be driven away.
Being polite is fine i suppose. holding your tongue because you might offend a cultural marxist is pure lose.
Western civilization is dead. People politely and non-offensively stood by while it was killed.
What I post is what I think. If i just went alone to get along I would be on the wotc forums agreeing that Gygax was a racist and what not.
I do not hang out with people I find detestable. Commies and social progressives need not apply to game with me.
It wont. I am only responding because you felt the need to call me out.

1) Politically, I imagine we agree on a lot of things. In this, we don't. And I didn't call you out - you responded to my post calling it "passive-aggressive."

2) This isn't a street corner. It's a forum hosted, owned, and operated by Troll Lord Games. We're in their backyard. Things said in this forum reflect on the hosts.

3) In the past, they have indicated very strongly that they want their forums kept neutral, for a variety of reasons. When I put forward the much more draconian policy on the former board, not one Troll asked me to rescind it.

This, despite having a more open policy prior to that. This board has no such policy posting, indicating that they want to provide some more slack to posters. I appreciate that as well, but I also know these guys and I know there are limits. Limits which you are coming very close to violating.

If you take it as your personal crusade to drive everyone that you politically disagree with from this particular board, I will ban your ass before you can blink.

You want to be a political warrior? Go over to DailyKos and argue with them.

Let that be the final statement on the matter.
Marshal Fiffergrund, Knight-Errant of the Castle and Crusade Society

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