Page 1 of 1

Demi humans missles

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:44 pm
by londonsmee
Taking that halflings, dwarves, gnomes are small in size. Do you think it would be unseasonable to reduce their effective missile ranges. Any links can't find anything that Covered it.
Cheers


Sorry should have posted in cnc discussion
Happy gamming

Re: Demi humans missles

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:03 pm
by Dracyian
Like how far they can shoot or throw?

If I am understanding the question I would say no. You might however say that they are not tall enough to weild a 6 foot longbow effectively. However I have no inclination that a dwarf couldn't shoot a composite bow or a compound bow any worse than a human as far as range is concerned or tell a halfling and gnome that they couldn't sling a rock as far as the average human

Re: Demi humans missles

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:41 pm
by Arduin
londonsmee wrote:Taking that halflings, dwarves, gnomes are small in size. Do you think it would be unseasonable to reduce their effective missile ranges. Any links can't find anything that Covered it.
Cheers


Sorry should have posted in cnc discussion
Happy gamming
Well, dwarves are more massive than elves. They have shorter legs but that's it about it. So, for thrown weapons by halflings & gnomes, perhaps. No long bows for any of them. Other than that, no.

Re: Demi humans missles

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:43 pm
by londonsmee
A gnome/halfling sized short comp bow at present would have the same range brackets as a human short comp bow. Didn't seem right.d

Re: Demi humans missles

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:00 pm
by Arduin
londonsmee wrote:A gnome/halfling sized short comp bow at present would have the same range brackets as a human short comp bow. Didn't seem right.d
A gnome or halfling could use the same "short bow" as a human. It would be like a human using a long bow. So, the range would be the same. If it was actually a special bow, the range should be less...

Re: Demi humans missles

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:09 pm
by londonsmee
So your saying that you think all weapons are human scale for reference.

Re: Demi humans missles

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:12 pm
by Treebore
The only reason I would shorten the range for a gnome or halfling is if I thought there was something in the local geography that would limit it for them, but not humans. So 99% of the time, I do not give such a limitation. So if I think they can see through the bushes, over hedges, rocks, walls, etc... the range for the weapons they are allowed are the same as they would be for humans and elves. After all, their 9 STR is the same as any other races 9 STR. So unless I think something in their environment would impact them, I treat them the same.

Like in my river encounter last night, if the Gnome Fighter was being played, he would have wanted to stay out of the river, because it was a couple of feet over his head. In the armor he wears, that would have likely meant he would drown.

Re: Demi humans missles

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:14 pm
by Arduin
londonsmee wrote:So your saying that you think all weapons are human scale for reference.
In the PHB weapons list, yes.

Re: Demi humans missles

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:18 pm
by londonsmee
Yeah but a 6" bow would have double the potential energy that a 3" bow would have. And being able to pull it's one thing, but to effectively fire it would be another thing. Unless he has stilts :-)

Re: Demi humans missles

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:18 pm
by Treebore
londonsmee wrote:So your saying that you think all weapons are human scale for reference.
Why not? The attributes are all set around the human standard.

Besides, there are two reasons they cannot use the Long bow, first the bow is too long, second, the length of the bow also makes the depth of the pull too deep for them to draw. So they simply cannot use it effectively. On a short bow they have neither problem. When I was teaching my son, at the age of 9, to use bows, the situation really brought home the reality of this. Plus at 9, he could not use my 120 LBS draw bow, so I had to get him one with a draw he could handle, which was 60 LBS. Since it was also manufactured for kids, it was shorter as well.

But that won't matter with gnomes and halflings, because as long as they have a 9 STR or better, they can handle the same draw weight as any human. Only the depth of the draw is a limitation, which is why they can't use a Long Bow, their arms simply are not long enough to do a full draw.

Re: Demi humans missles

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:20 pm
by Arduin
londonsmee wrote:Yeah but a 6" bow would have double the potential energy that a 3" bow would have. And being able to pull it's one thing, but to effectively fire it would be another thing. Unless he has stilts :-)
a 6' bow is a LONG bow. Not a SHORT bow...

Re: Demi humans missles

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:23 pm
by Treebore
londonsmee wrote:Yeah but a 6" bow would have double the potential energy that a 3" bow would have. And being able to pull it's one thing, but to effectively fire it would be another thing. Unless he has stilts :-)

It could, yes, especially with today's compound bows. But we don't have today's compound bows in our C&C. At best we have the old English Long Bows, and they all had an average draw weight. I don't recall for sure what it is, but I think it was close to 110 LBS. It may have been as low as 80 LBS. I bet a search can turn it up.

Plus if you look you are right, which is why the long bow does a D8 damage and has longer range increments. The Short Bow does a D6 and has shorter range increments. A gnome or halfling using it will make no difference on the Short bow. Certainly not on the Crossbows. You may want to rule that to use the Heavy Crossbow they must use a stand, since it is likely simply too big and unwieldy for them to use it without one. Heck, even humans used them, to steady their aim.

Re: Demi humans missles

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:29 pm
by Arduin
Treebore wrote: It could, yes, especially with today's compound bows. But we don't have today's compound bows in our C&C. At best we have the old English Long Bows, and they all had an average draw weight. I don't recall for sure what it is, but I think it was close to 110 LBS. It may have been as low as 80 LBS. I bet a search can turn it up.
A few years ago they found a large cache of English Long bows. They were ~6 1/2 to 7' long and the pull was around 110+ lbs. as you stated.

Re: Demi humans missles

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 8:00 pm
by Dracyian
What if the Gnome laid on his/her back placed the bow on their boots notched their arrow and using the legs to hold the arms of the bow shot it lol

However concerning compound bows, while they are not listed in C&C yet I see no reason why they couldn't have been invented. Most of this, using human history on earth as a background takes place. The pully was invented back in Greece and the Bow and arrow being around much longer. With some of the militaristic, science and math jumps made in Greece, in my mind its not a far stretch for a rudimentary compound bow to be made using hardword, especially if there are Crossbows invented

Re: Demi humans missles

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 8:04 pm
by Treebore
Dracyian wrote:What if the Gnome laid on his/her back placed the bow on their boots notched their arrow and using the legs to hold the arms of the bow shot it lol

However concerning compound bows, while they are not listed in C&C yet I see no reason why they couldn't have been invented. Most of this, using human history on earth as a background takes place. The pully was invented back in Greece and the Bow and arrow being around much longer. With some of the militaristic, science and math jumps made in Greece, in my mind its not a far stretch for a rudimentary compound bow to be made using hardword, especially if there are Crossbows invented

Technically, the Mongols used compound short bows to conquer everyone. If I recall correctly they used a laminated bone technique. So not a "compound" bow in the same way modern bows are, but their strength was impressive.

Re: Demi humans missles

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 8:24 pm
by serleran
They don't make very good missiles, being soft and fleshy. Dwarfs might work when hurled. Ask giants. They seem to have a fondness for it.

Re: Demi humans missles

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 8:42 pm
by Arduin
serleran wrote:They don't make very good missiles, being soft and fleshy. Dwarfs might work when hurled. Ask giants. They seem to have a fondness for it.
:lol:

Image

Re: Demi humans missles

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 8:44 pm
by Dracyian
serleran wrote:They don't make very good missiles, being soft and fleshy. Dwarfs might work when hurled. Ask giants. They seem to have a fondness for it.
However Gnomes have anger issues and pointy hats

Re: Demi humans missles

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:04 pm
by redwullf
londonsmee wrote:Taking that halflings, dwarves, gnomes are small in size. Do you think it would be unseasonable to reduce their effective missile ranges. Any links can't find anything that Covered it.
Cheers


Sorry should have posted in cnc discussion
Happy gamming
My opinion, it's an unnecessary attempt to apply "realism" to the game, which really just creates unnecessary complexity. The beauty of C&C is it's simplicity and streamlined rules. I'm not saying there's no room for house rules, I'm just saying what would this particular rule really net you in terms of increased fun and enhanced game-play? It's going to take away more than it provides.

Re: Demi humans missles

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:34 pm
by londonsmee
Interest thought, but why have any rules. I like the idea of mages wearing plate swinging 2 hand swords. But not everyone would go for that. Thanks for the comment.

Re: Demi humans missles

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:55 pm
by Arduin
londonsmee wrote:Interest thought, but why have any rules. I like the idea of mages wearing plate swinging 2 hand swords. But not everyone would go for that. Thanks for the comment.
What post are you replying to? I don't see any that match this reply. Wrong thread?

Re: Demi humans missles

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:59 pm
by Dracyian
Arduin wrote:
londonsmee wrote:Interest thought, but why have any rules. I like the idea of mages wearing plate swinging 2 hand swords. But not everyone would go for that. Thanks for the comment.
What post are you replying to? I don't see any that match this reply. Wrong thread?
I think he was trying to draw a poor corelation between Redwullf's reply of why bother having that rule as it adds nothing to game in term of fun but instead may detract from said fun of the game. I would assume he was making a poor attempt at a satiricatically (sorry if the spelling is wrong, i'm a bad speeeeelller) humor to draw a corelation between the need of rules to keep things fair

Re: Demi humans missles

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:23 pm
by Arduin
Dracyian wrote:
Arduin wrote:
londonsmee wrote:Interest thought, but why have any rules. I like the idea of mages wearing plate swinging 2 hand swords. But not everyone would go for that. Thanks for the comment.
What post are you replying to? I don't see any that match this reply. Wrong thread?
I think he was trying to draw a poor corelation between Redwullf's reply of why bother having that rule as it adds nothing to game in term of fun but instead may detract from said fun of the game. I would assume he was making a poor attempt at a satiricatically (sorry if the spelling is wrong, i'm a bad speeeeelller) humor to draw a corelation between the need of rules to keep things fair

Thanks for the translation. [don't worry about spelling]

Re: Demi humans missles

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:44 pm
by londonsmee
sorry didn't do a quote to his reply. Apologies for the confusion but yes your right to the correlation. Thought it was OK attempt at sarcasm. :)

Re: Demi humans missles

Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:11 am
by serleran
Dracyian wrote:
serleran wrote:They don't make very good missiles, being soft and fleshy. Dwarfs might work when hurled. Ask giants. They seem to have a fondness for it.
However Gnomes have anger issues and pointy hats
Exactly. That's why no one tosses a gnome. Or at least none that have survived the claim. Dwarf-bowling is one thing but doing such with a garden variety pointy-beard badger-whisperer is a slew of angst even Emo can't tickle.

Re: Demi humans missles

Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 4:25 am
by redwullf
londonsmee wrote:sorry didn't do a quote to his reply. Apologies for the confusion but yes your right to the correlation. Thought it was OK attempt at sarcasm. :)
Well there you go then.

Re: Demi humans missles

Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:11 pm
by Dracyian
serleran wrote:
Dracyian wrote:
serleran wrote:They don't make very good missiles, being soft and fleshy. Dwarfs might work when hurled. Ask giants. They seem to have a fondness for it.
However Gnomes have anger issues and pointy hats
Exactly. That's why no one tosses a gnome. Or at least none that have survived the claim. Dwarf-bowling is one thing but doing such with a garden variety pointy-beard badger-whisperer is a slew of angst even Emo can't tickle.
*dead*

P.S. we should bug the trolls to get a dead smilie emoticon

Re: Demi humans missles

Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:34 pm
by Lurker
serleran wrote:
Dracyian wrote:
serleran wrote:They don't make very good missiles, being soft and fleshy. Dwarfs might work when hurled. Ask giants. They seem to have a fondness for it.
However Gnomes have anger issues and pointy hats
Exactly. That's why no one tosses a gnome. Or at least none that have survived the claim. Dwarf-bowling is one thing but doing such with a garden variety pointy-beard badger-whisperer is a slew of angst even Emo can't tickle.

:shock: :lol:

I hate to admit it, but when I first read the title of this discussion ... I pictured a halfling being used as a sling bullet, a dwarf as a crossbow bolt and an elf as a longbow arrow ... :lol:

It's good to see I'm not the only twisted individual here ;)

Re: Demi humans missles

Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:43 pm
by Dracyian
When I first started playing and participating on the boards I was fairly naive, I wouldn’t say innocent, I have my sins and dark caverns in my mind, but some of the things I learned on the boards and have seen on the boards I wouldn’t have thought of or even seen somewhere else a few months ago, I don’t think there exist many individuals who participate on these boards who isn’t to at least some degree twisted :P