Oddity with coins in a backpack

[mostrojoe]

The PH says:

Use the following for a baseline. Each coin in C&C
is roughly 1 ounce. This would make gold coins, as the metal
is heavier, smaller than silver coins, whose metal is lighter.
Every 16 coins is equal to a pound. However coins have
almost no bulk to them, but may have weight. A single coin,
or a pound of coins, has no appreciable EV. Ten pounds, or
160 coins, is equal to 1 EV.

Then the CKG, in chapter 3, says that a backpack can contain 200 coins max.

How can It be possible? If a backpack has a Capacity of 8, Shouldn't be 160x8=1280 coins?

[Grandpa]

Then the CKG, in chapter 3, says that a backpack can contain 200 coins max.

How can It be possible? If a backpack has a Capacity of 8, Shouldn't be 160x8=1280 coins?

As the backpack has a carrying capacity limit of 40 lbs. it should read 640 Gold

If Trolls could do simple math they wouldn't be trolls.

[Go0gleplex]

640 coins...which is roughly only 13.7 cubic inches in volume....or EV 4 (I actually got a burr about this a couple years ago and built a spreadsheet around actual metal weights by volume for copper, silver, gold, and platinum.)

[Traveller]

Based on history most coins, especially gold and silver, weigh nowhere near an ounce. I posted an article on the Knights of the Crusade forum regarding this. Because that forum seems to no longer be maintained, I'll reprint it here.

The problem is that the coin weights have always been off, and it started all the way back at the beginning. The entire reason for coins being one ounce in weight was to make sure you couldn't take it all with you. Actually, I think it had to do with using coins to determine encumbrance, but the size of coins is way out of whack. Even my house rules get it wrong. The reality of the situation is that coins are going to be far smaller. In the Roman Republic for example, around 200BCE you would have the following coins.

Aureus: Gold, 7g, 20mm (0.247 oz., 0.8"), 65 aurei per pound
Denarius: Silver, 3g, 19mm ( 0.105 oz., 0.75"), 152 denarii per pound
As: Bronze, 9 - 12g, 27mm (0.317 - 0.423 oz., 1.062"), 51 - 38 assēs per pound

To switch to more realistic coinage, I need to rework the rule that says the EV of coins is 1 per 10. It actually needs to be a figure determined by the weights of the coins in question. By the book, EV of coins is 1 per 10 carried, and since each coin by the book is 1 ounce, EV1 of coins is equal to 10 ounces. Doing some simple math I get the following.

Aureus: 1 per 40
Denarius: 1 per 95
As: 1 per 32 or 1 per 24

Sounds good, right? Not so fast. I have problems I have to resolve before this coinage can be used in game. The first problem is the as. It has a range of weights, which leads to a range of results for the number of coins per pound as well as the EV value. The second is some of the numbers not ending in numbers one can calculate in their head.

The first problem can be resolved simply by using the lightest weight for the as. The second problem can be solved by rounding up or down to the nearest 0 or 5. While personal preference, rounding this way makes the math a little easier for game purposes. The final results for the coins would then be as follows.

Aureus: Gold, 7g, 20mm (0.247 oz., 0.8"), 65 aurei per pound, EV 1 per 40
Denarius: Silver, 3g, 19mm (0.105 oz., 0.75"), 150 denarii per pound, EV 1 per 95
As: Bronze, 9g, 27mm (0.317 oz., 1.062"), 50 assēs per pound, EV 1 per 30

-------------------------------

For my game, given that I've done the work I should be using this for my coinage system. However, I also use a tin coin, so I need to find a historic example of a tin coin and use that as a basis. Fortunately, there is one. From 1684-1692 a tin farthing replaced the copper coin; the change in metal was intended to but failed to bolster the tin industry. These coins all contained a tiny plug of copper in the center, ostensibly to prevent counterfeiting. The particulars for the tin farthing are below.

Farthing: Tin, 5.4 - 6.0g, 23 or 24mm (0.190 - 0.211 oz., 0.905 - 0.944"), 85 - 76 farthings per pound

The tin farthing has a similar problem to the as, in that there are a range of weights and diameters available for the coin. The solution to the problem is almost identical to the as, in that I use the lightest weight. For the variation in diameter, I ended up using the smaller diameter. From there, I determined the number of coins that would equal EV1 (1 per 53), round that number to the nearest 0 or 5, and then had to figure out what to rename the coin, since "farthing" doesn't sound right when paired with "aureus", "denarius", and "as". For renaming the coin Wikipedia provided a handy answer. Greek versions of some biblical texts mention a "kodrantes". The term is a Greek translation of "quadrans", a Roman coin valued at 1/4 of an as. In English translations, this translates into "farthing", though in at least one verse in the bible, the Greek term "assarion", a translation of "assēs" - the plural of "as" - is also translated into "farthing". Since my tin piece is the lowest value in my coinage, "assarion", although it sounds better, just doesn't fit since it's referring to a more valuable coin. Thus, I'll use "quadrans".

Quadrans: Tin, 5.4g, 23mm (0.190 oz., 0.905"), 85 quadrans per pound, EV 1 per 55

[Brick Hardslab]

Based on history most coins, especially gold and silver, weigh nowhere near an ounce. I posted an article on the Knights of the Crusade forum regarding this. Because that forum seems to no longer be maintained, I'll reprint it here.

The problem is that the coin weights have always been off, and it started all the way back at the beginning. The entire reason for coins being one ounce in weight was to make sure you couldn't take it all with you. Actually, I think it had to do with using coins to determine encumbrance, but the size of coins is way out of whack. Even my house rules get it wrong. The reality of the situation is that coins are going to be far smaller. In the Roman Republic for example, around 200BCE you would have the following coins.

Aureus: Gold, 7g, 20mm (0.247 oz., 0.8"), 65 aurei per pound
Denarius: Silver, 3g, 19mm ( 0.105 oz., 0.75"), 152 denarii per pound
As: Bronze, 9 - 12g, 27mm (0.317 - 0.423 oz., 1.062"), 51 - 38 assēs per pound

To switch to more realistic coinage, I need to rework the rule that says the EV of coins is 1 per 10. It actually needs to be a figure determined by the weights of the coins in question. By the book, EV of coins is 1 per 10 carried, and since each coin by the book is 1 ounce, EV1 of coins is equal to 10 ounces. Doing some simple math I get the following.

Aureus: 1 per 40
Denarius: 1 per 95
As: 1 per 32 or 1 per 24

Sounds good, right? Not so fast. I have problems I have to resolve before this coinage can be used in game. The first problem is the as. It has a range of weights, which leads to a range of results for the number of coins per pound as well as the EV value. The second is some of the numbers not ending in numbers one can calculate in their head.

The first problem can be resolved simply by using the lightest weight for the as. The second problem can be solved by rounding up or down to the nearest 0 or 5. While personal preference, rounding this way makes the math a little easier for game purposes. The final results for the coins would then be as follows.

Aureus: Gold, 7g, 20mm (0.247 oz., 0.8"), 65 aurei per pound, EV 1 per 40
Denarius: Silver, 3g, 19mm (0.105 oz., 0.75"), 150 denarii per pound, EV 1 per 95
As: Bronze, 9g, 27mm (0.317 oz., 1.062"), 50 assēs per pound, EV 1 per 30

-------------------------------

For my game, given that I've done the work I should be using this for my coinage system. However, I also use a tin coin, so I need to find a historic example of a tin coin and use that as a basis. Fortunately, there is one. From 1684-1692 a tin farthing replaced the copper coin; the change in metal was intended to but failed to bolster the tin industry. These coins all contained a tiny plug of copper in the center, ostensibly to prevent counterfeiting. The particulars for the tin farthing are below.

Farthing: Tin, 5.4 - 6.0g, 23 or 24mm (0.190 - 0.211 oz., 0.905 - 0.944"), 85 - 76 farthings per pound

The tin farthing has a similar problem to the as, in that there are a range of weights and diameters available for the coin. The solution to the problem is almost identical to the as, in that I use the lightest weight. For the variation in diameter, I ended up using the smaller diameter. From there, I determined the number of coins that would equal EV1 (1 per 53), round that number to the nearest 0 or 5, and then had to figure out what to rename the coin, since "farthing" doesn't sound right when paired with "aureus", "denarius", and "as". For renaming the coin Wikipedia provided a handy answer. Greek versions of some biblical texts mention a "kodrantes". The term is a Greek translation of "quadrans", a Roman coin valued at 1/4 of an as. In English translations, this translates into "farthing", though in at least one verse in the bible, the Greek term "assarion", a translation of "assēs" - the plural of "as" - is also translated into "farthing". Since my tin piece is the lowest value in my coinage, "assarion", although it sounds better, just doesn't fit since it's referring to a more valuable coin. Thus, I'll use "quadrans".

Quadrans: Tin, 5.4g, 23mm (0.190 oz., 0.905"), 85 quadrans per pound, EV 1 per 55

It was harder decades ago but now we can look up the weights for coins and precious metals. I've held fifty pounds of gold and silver and I was stunned at the size of it. My grandma started saving silver coins in the sixties so I had never understood the weird coins from the games.

I like your take

[Captain_K]

I use coins of history linked to modern US coins to give the feel. I will attempt to paste the picture in here. But on average think 65 or so to the pound in pennies nickels and dimes..

[maximus]

I did some math and ended up with 48 coins per #.

[Go0gleplex]

This was the methodology I used for my game:
How much do all my coins weigh?
A solid cubic foot of zinc, iron, copper, silver, gold, and platinum respectively weigh in at 445.30 lbs, 491lbs, 559 lbs, 655 lbs, 1206 lbs, 1340.5 lbs respectively. (per weights of metal - wiki) 14.4 troy ounces in a pound.
Assuming a coin size of just over one inch in diameter with a 1/10 inch thickness, you can get approximately 7 coins per cubic inch. (per treasure hoard rules in the Draconomicon 3.5 ed).
Assuming an optimal stacking pattern within a theoretical container, approximately 30% of the volume ends up void space between coins and stacks.
Therefore; (ignoring zinc and iron for now) a cubic foot of copper, silver, gold, and platinum coins would weigh in at 391.3 lbs, 458.5 lbs, 844.2 lbs, 938.3 lbs respectively.
There are 1728 cubic inches in a cubic foot, therefore a cubic foot container holds approximately 12,096 coins. (1728 x 7)
Dividing the weight per cubic foot per metal type by number of coins we find that the approximate weight per coin type is;
10 coppers = 0.3 lbs : 100 coppers = 3 lbs : 1000 coppers = 30 lbs : 10000 coppers = 300 lbs
10 silvers = 0.4 lbs : 100 silvers = 4 lbs : 1000 silvers = 40 lbs : 10000 silvers = 400 lbs
10 gold = 0.7 lbs : 100 gold = 7 lbs : 1000 gold = 70 lbs : 10000 gold = 700 lbs (1 gold coin = 1 troy ounce)
10 platinum = 0.8 lbs : 100 platinum = 8 lbs : 1000 platinum = 80 lbs : 10000 platinum = 800 lbs
Volume-wise (approx.): 10 coins = 2 cu in. : 100 coins = 14 cu in : 1000 coins = 143 cu in (or an approx. 5"x5"x6" coffer) : 10000 coins = 1429 cu in (or an approx. 12"x10"x12" chest)

Then again, if you want to bring the coins into a more realistic portrayal, the purity of the coin minted by the various countries was a form of economic and political power also. The higher the purity, the more economic buying power the coin had giving the country that minted it more influence (ie. political capital as well as its economic effect) over others. A strong currency could wreck the country with a weaker one. The more impure the coin the lighter it will be in weight, so 80 gold coins from Frankum will be lighter than the gold coins from Gundark that have fewer impurities...and have a higher buying power by X percentage. Roman silver coins are 128 per pound, gold coins 57 per pound. The coins come out roughly ¼ of the size I am using based on the numbers, so a rough speed calculation would be to multiply the number of coins in the information below by four.
Using zinc as the agent used to cut the purity of the coins (much as our own US Mint does) the weights of the coins goes down proportionately.