Expedition to the Barrier Peaks

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Gringnr
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Re: Expedition to the Barrier Peaks

Post by Gringnr »

I think some of the tourney modules were published with scoring system and pre-gens included, in case you wanted to run a home tournament...
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Penny-Whistle
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Re: Expedition to the Barrier Peaks

Post by Penny-Whistle »

Gringnr wrote:I think some of the tourney modules were published with scoring system and pre-gens included, in case you wanted to run a home tournament...
Thx I have a tonne of materials. Maps, pre-gens etc etc. That isn't the problem.

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Gringnr
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Re: Expedition to the Barrier Peaks

Post by Gringnr »

Penny-Whistle wrote:
Gringnr wrote:I think some of the tourney modules were published with scoring system and pre-gens included, in case you wanted to run a home tournament...
Thx I have a tonne of materials. Maps, pre-gens etc etc. That isn't the problem.
Ah, no, I wasn't suggesting that for you, just saying that I've seen that in some tourney modules... I meant "you" as in "someone".
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Penny-Whistle
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Re: Expedition to the Barrier Peaks

Post by Penny-Whistle »

Gringnr wrote:
Penny-Whistle wrote:
Gringnr wrote: Well, I think it was born as a "tournament module" so it probably is a bit light on background.
A background is included. it explains why the 'dungeon' is there and what happened to the people inside. It doesn't connect to character motivation.

Easy to forgive some of the faults. The setting conceit is clever. Some people really do like to bash monsters and find that rewarding. Some players are so awesome that they can build a story themselves. And it comes from early days. People know much more now about games. That knowledge was built on top of these early examples.

However, I am not buying the excuse that a tournament module has to be light on story or motivation. And for me a story that starts with 'some guy has hired you to explore a dungeon' feels a little thin.
I agree with you for the most part. But, when you consider that a) most of these "tournament" modules had some kind of IRL time constraint IIRC, b) there was usually a scoring process (so the goal wasn't character development, but "competition" with other players) involved, and c) that "tournament" modules usually used pre-gens which were distributed to the players (again, no goal of character development, but the only way to ensure a balanced party/level playing field in a scored module, really), it becomes more forgivable.

Not defending the module against any of your criticisms, necessarily, just saying that its "shortcomings" make more sense if you consider the module's origins. Now, more effort could have been taken to make the module less "tournament-y" and more suitable for campaign play, but IIRC, at the time it came out, we were more than happy to play it as It was. Also, at that time, you could have stuck the D&D name on just about anything and it still would have sold (looking at you, Judges Guild), so why would they have bothered? Roleplaying was still young then, and many were content simply to hack, slash and loot. The actual roleplaying potential of this game and similar games had yet to be discovered by many.

Dropping it into a campaign could work, imagine the effect some off that technology might have on the setting. Scholars wanting to study the ship, or nefarious baddies looking to harvest its technology for their own terrible ends...

Hell, if you really want to throw your characters a curveball, have them accidentally start the ship's launch process. Would they be able to escape the ship in time? That could make for an excellent "race against time" type of scenario, and solve the problem of having the alien technology (or at least more of it than the party can carry) in your setting. If they didn't escape in time, what would they do? How would they get back? Perhaps they aren't the first adventurers to board the ship. A previous party has perished and left a single-use, powerful artifact that can return them to their planet- if they are clever enough to find it, and fortunate enough to have survived long enough to use it!

In any event, I'm not arguing, or trying to be contrarian. I have a deep respect for your approach to gaming. And, to be fair, I am probably letting nostalgia get in the way of appraising this module too honestly...
I chose the wrong forum for discussing this. I wasn't my intention to knock old school games. I am sorry my comments sounded disrespectful. I was thinking more about how I as a player have changed my expectations over time.

I began gaming through video games like WOW so I see these things through that lens. At first I was totally ok with going on a quest, killing a bunch of monsters and then returning back to the base to get my reward. Over time that kind of thing started to get a little dull. It felt a little bit like working out on a treadmill. Or more nightmarishly like a rat trapped in a Skinner box pressing a lever over and over again. But I continued to play because other things offered reward. I loved that moment when my druid levelled up and I could change into a cat. I ran and ran along the beach saying to myself: look at me! (bounce) I am a cat running on a beach. (bounce) haha. I loved PVP, raiding with a regular group, that time when the aliens mysteriously appeared over the major cities and when a plague swept through the world. But the most fun came outside of anything that was planned by the designers. Protecting Orgrimmar from Stormwind raids or messing around with programming bugs remain my best memories. My take away from those experiences is that the key to fun is moments of genuine surprise but above all: freedom and player agency.

Running a module is a lot like building something from IKEA. All the parts are there and usually the manuals are clearly written. Sometimes those instructions push one's spatial skills and if one can work past the frustration one can feel some satisfaction upon completion. But that satisfaction doesn't come close to taking a woodworking course and building something from scratch.

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Re: Expedition to the Barrier Peaks

Post by Rhuvein »

Penny, just got a call from work. Going in won't be home until after 7:45 - so I'll probably get online at 8.

See y'all then!

:)
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Penny-Whistle
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Re: Expedition to the Barrier Peaks

Post by Penny-Whistle »

A tough fight and yet so little xp =(

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Rhuvein
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Re: Expedition to the Barrier Peaks

Post by Rhuvein »

Image

Couatl
Count Rhuveinus - Lejendary Keeper of Castle Franqueforte

"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax

"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth

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Rhuvein
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Re: Expedition to the Barrier Peaks

Post by Rhuvein »

Great session . . thanks to all!!

:D
Count Rhuveinus - Lejendary Keeper of Castle Franqueforte

"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax

"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth

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Gringnr
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Re: Expedition to the Barrier Peaks

Post by Gringnr »

Penny-Whistle wrote:
I chose the wrong forum for discussing this. I wasn't my intention to knock old school games. I am sorry my comments sounded disrespectful. I was thinking more about how I as a player have changed my expectations over time.

I began gaming through video games like WOW so I see these things through that lens. At first I was totally ok with going on a quest, killing a bunch of monsters and then returning back to the base to get my reward. Over time that kind of thing started to get a little dull. It felt a little bit like working out on a treadmill. Or more nightmarishly like a rat trapped in a Skinner box pressing a lever over and over again. But I continued to play because other things offered reward. I loved that moment when my druid levelled up and I could change into a cat. I ran and ran along the beach saying to myself: look at me! (bounce) I am a cat running on a beach. (bounce) haha. I loved PVP, raiding with a regular group, that time when the aliens mysteriously appeared over the major cities and when a plague swept through the world. But the most fun came outside of anything that was planned by the designers. Protecting Orgrimmar from Stormwind raids or messing around with programming bugs remain my best memories. My take away from those experiences is that the key to fun is moments of genuine surprise but above all: freedom and player agency.

Running a module is a lot like building something from IKEA. All the parts are there and usually the manuals are clearly written. Sometimes those instructions push one's spatial skills and if one can work past the frustration one can feel some satisfaction upon completion. But that satisfaction doesn't come close to taking a woodworking course and building something from scratch.
I'm not even playing in this game, so I probably shouldn't have offered my two cents, ....BUT, ...

I think you're being too hard on yourself. And I would never get mad at someone for "disrespecting" an old game module (or even a new one). It all boils down to different play styles. There is no right or wrong, and I'd be the last person to ever dismiss anyone's experience or perspective. And, as I said, nostalgia is a very big draw of the old modules for me to this very day.

If anything, I was agreeing with your assessment of the module, and just kind of explaining why someone might have made a module like that, with all of its limitations. Look, it was the 80s, we didn't know any better. We also liked the Atari 2600 (and even though I play a lot of emulated old games, I'll be the first to say that those 2600 games just.... don't hold up).

Anyway, I feel like I'm beating a dead horse here, but lemme just be clear: at no times did I have any feels over this. Just shootin' the breeze about games. If anyone picked the wrong place to shoot their mouth off, it was probably me. "Heyo, I'm not even playing in this game but please listen up, while I share my many valid and correct opinions about-" etc.

Image

Image
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Re: Expedition to the Barrier Peaks

Post by alcyone »

We were talking offline about how it irks me when people compare games to science or technology like they advance over time, like Dungeon World is the result of decades of research and OD&D is like riding to work on a penny-farthing or treating a cold with a jar of leeches.

Sure, there's stuff that could be done better in every game, but it's not this progression where every 5 years games obsolete the previous batch. I think the tournament modules represent deliberate design choices around the 9 hour limit and a need to winnow out a certain percentage of players each 3 hour segment (easily done with the knock-on-every-single-door types who will be on level 1 up to the last minute), combine with budgetary and time-to-market considerations, and just what that group of people happened to think was fun in 1980.

It's not like we know more about arithmetic or elves now than we did then. I do cheer for the better inclusion and immersion some newer games have, but it's all possible in OD&D and AD&D, even with TSR's modules, after all, the games don't do anything without our help anyway.

So maybe she is just being circumspect because everyone might be as grumpy an old goat as me.

I don't think she had a single feel over it either.
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Gringnr
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Re: Expedition to the Barrier Peaks

Post by Gringnr »

Ah, good.



"Kids today, with their ascending armor class..." *scowls and shakes fist angrily*
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Penny-Whistle
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Re: Expedition to the Barrier Peaks

Post by Penny-Whistle »

Rhuvein wrote:Great session . . thanks to all!!

:D
But that picture! One can't un-see some things GAK

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Re: Expedition to the Barrier Peaks

Post by alcyone »

Yeah, Tom Hanks is scary.
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Penny-Whistle
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Re: Expedition to the Barrier Peaks

Post by Penny-Whistle »

Well heck, Sorry about the technical difficulties. Apparently Discord was having some issues today. Doesn't explain the Skype problems though. Bummer. I have an idea for next week that might help sort this out.

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Re: Expedition to the Barrier Peaks

Post by Rhuvein »

No problemo. Hardware/software happens and when it does not work = SHIT!

Lemeno if you want to try anything tonight. I can get online if you wish.

Otherwise, we can test Sunday night if you want.

:P
Count Rhuveinus - Lejendary Keeper of Castle Franqueforte

"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax

"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth

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Re: Expedition to the Barrier Peaks

Post by Penny-Whistle »

Rhuvein wrote:No problemo. Hardware/software happens and when it does not work = SHIT!

Lemeno if you want to try anything tonight. I can get online if you wish.

Otherwise, we can test Sunday night if you want.

:P

You have the patience of a saint. See you Sunday =D

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Re: Expedition to the Barrier Peaks

Post by Penny-Whistle »

The sound seems to check out on Roll 20. Fingers crossed that situation is stable. Game on 7:00 PM Central.

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Re: Expedition to the Barrier Peaks

Post by Rhuvein »

Excellent!
Count Rhuveinus - Lejendary Keeper of Castle Franqueforte

"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax

"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth

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Re: Expedition to the Barrier Peaks

Post by Penny-Whistle »

Sound tested. Game on. Same time. Same place.

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Rhuvein
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Re: Expedition to the Barrier Peaks

Post by Rhuvein »

Thanks.

I might be a few minutes late.

:D
Count Rhuveinus - Lejendary Keeper of Castle Franqueforte

"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax

"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth

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Penny-Whistle
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Re: Expedition to the Barrier Peaks

Post by Penny-Whistle »

Game on = D

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Re: Expedition to the Barrier Peaks

Post by Rhuvein »

Sorry. Had to work and just now realized what time it is. :oops:

I'm still up for gaming if it's not too late and you've changed your plans for the evening.

:P
Count Rhuveinus - Lejendary Keeper of Castle Franqueforte

"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax

"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth

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Re: Expedition to the Barrier Peaks

Post by Penny-Whistle »

No worries. See you next game. =D

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Re: Expedition to the Barrier Peaks

Post by Penny-Whistle »

Ugh. Can't make it tonight. Went for a run and I'm still wiped out. Sorry.

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Rhuvein
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Re: Expedition to the Barrier Peaks

Post by Rhuvein »

Whoa, just got home from work and got worried that I was going to be late again.

So, we can all chill out then for tonight.

:)
Count Rhuveinus - Lejendary Keeper of Castle Franqueforte

"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax

"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth

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Re: Expedition to the Barrier Peaks

Post by Penny-Whistle »

game on tonight

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Re: Expedition to the Barrier Peaks

Post by Rhuvein »

Great. Looking forward to it!
:)
Count Rhuveinus - Lejendary Keeper of Castle Franqueforte

"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax

"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth

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Rhuvein
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Re: Expedition to the Barrier Peaks

Post by Rhuvein »

Great game last night!

Thanks Penny & players!

Really enjoying this module!

8-)
Count Rhuveinus - Lejendary Keeper of Castle Franqueforte

"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax

"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth

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Re: Expedition to the Barrier Peaks

Post by Penny-Whistle »

Rhuvein wrote:Great game last night!

Thanks Penny & players!

Really enjoying this module!

8-)

And thanks to you! I am really glad to hear you are having fun. =D

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Re: Expedition to the Barrier Peaks

Post by Rhuvein »

Penny-Whistle wrote:
Rhuvein wrote:Great game last night!

Thanks Penny & players!

Really enjoying this module!

8-)

And thanks to you! I am really glad to hear you are having fun. =D
The next level down ~ oh my, not sure what to expect!!! :shock:
Count Rhuveinus - Lejendary Keeper of Castle Franqueforte

"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax

"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth

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